"472CID" (472CID)
06/26/2015 at 13:45 • Filed to: USELESSLISTS
5
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"472CID" (472CID)
06/26/2015 at 13:45 • Filed to: USELESSLISTS | 5
| 27 |
A while ago I noticed how few European cars made over 200hp during America’s horsepower wars. Now, one could argue that European cars were rated more conservatively compared to America’s gross ratings, so in most cases we can assume American engines are rated about 20% too high (on the other hand some engines were underrated so ¯\_()_/¯ ). This list spans the peak of the power years from 1960-73, for after 1973 check out
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I’ve broken the list into two groups, European and American. It’s sorted by engine, most engines were shared in numerous cars. Also the simplified with the highest rating.
Mercedes V8 - up to 300hp [in the 300SEL 6.3]
Jaguar V12 - up to 314hp [in the XJ-S]
Aston Martin I6 - up to 330hp [in the DB6 Vantage]
Maserati V8 - up to 335hp [in the Ghilbi SS and Bora SS]
Lamborghini V12 - up to 380hp [ in pretty much every early Lambo highest in the Miura SV]
Ferrari V12 - up to 400hp [In almost every 60s Ferrari highest in the 500 Superfast]
As for American cars we’ll set the bar a bit higher, here’s all the engines rated at over 400hp.
Oldsmobile 455 - up to 400hp [ highest in the 1970 Cutlass 442]
Cadillac 500 - up to 400hp [peaked in 1970]
Pontiac 421 - up to 405hp [1963 Super Duty]
Chevrolet 409 - up to 425hp [Bel Airs, Impalas, Biscaynes]
Ford 427 - up to 425hp (but probably more) [highest in the Thunderbolt, second highest in the Cobra]
Mopar 426 - up to 425hp (but probably more) [425 in everything]
Chevrolet 427 - up to 435hp [1967 Corvette only]
Chevrolet 454 - up to 450hp [1970 Chevelle, and like 2 Corvettes]
There’s A LOT of cars just under the 400 mark; Mopar 440 and 413, Pontiac 428 and 400, Ford 429, Cadillac 472, Chevy 396, and Olds 425 all made over 370hp. I don’t want hear about the Ford 427 sohc, that’s a pure race engine.
lone_liberal
> 472CID
06/26/2015 at 13:51 |
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I found this list yesterday which shows the supposed true gross horsepower rating of various engines in various cars.
Engine—————————Advertised——Rated—————True
————————————HP @ RPM—— Torque@ RPM— HP @ RPM
Buick 455 Stage 1———-360@5000——510@2800———420@5400
Camaro Z/28 302————290@5800——290@4200———310@6200
Chevelle 396 L-78———-375@5600——415@3600———400@5600
Corvette 427 L-88———-430@5200——450@4400———480@6400
Mopar 340-4 bbl————-275@5000——340@3200———320@5600
Mopar 440-Magnum———375@4600——480@3200———410@5400
Mopar 440 Six-Pack———390@4700——490@3200———430@5600
Mopar 426 Street Hemi—-425@5000——490@4000———470@6000
Mustang Boss 302————290@5800——290@4300———310@6200
Ford 351-4 bbl Cleveland—300@5400——380@3400———340@5600
Mustang Boss 351————330@5400——370@4000———360@6000
Mustang 428 Cobra-Jet—-335@5200——440@3400———410@5600
Mustang Boss 429————375@5200——450@3400———420@5600
Oldsmobile 455 W-30——-370@5300——500@3600———440@5600
Oldsmobile 350 W-31——-325@5400——360@3600———350@5800
Pontiac Ram Air 400———366@5100——445@3600———410@5600
LongbowMkII
> 472CID
06/26/2015 at 13:54 |
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I like that in the 60’s all of the big 3 offered a ‘Hellcat’(full size sedan with one of the most powerful engines in the world with just ‘enough’ chassis support)
WiscoProud
> lone_liberal
06/26/2015 at 14:19 |
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Was that list set up just to show the underrated cars? Because overrating the HP was pretty well known. Also, how was "True HP" determined? Dyno?
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lone_liberal
> WiscoProud
06/26/2015 at 14:28 |
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It was indeed a list of underrated engines as those tended to be the highest powered ones and in turn the ones that most people were interested in. As to the how it was determined, the list was taken from an auto journalist of the time named Roger Huntington so I assume that it comes from factory engineers that he interviewed. I would think that net figures would be about 20% lower so they don’t seem out of the realm of reality.
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WiscoProud
> lone_liberal
06/26/2015 at 14:30 |
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Seems reasonable to me. It was crazy how much horsepower they would cram into those cars, especially considering the rudimentary suspension and braking systems.
KnowsAboutCars
> 472CID
06/26/2015 at 14:37 |
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435hp 427 wasn’t Corvette only engine. They also used it in the original ZL1 Camaro.
Cé hé sin
> 472CID
06/26/2015 at 14:39 |
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And to think this was designed fifty years ago.
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lone_liberal
> WiscoProud
06/26/2015 at 14:41 |
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I did a little more digging, it’s a slow day at work, and it turns out that Huntington was the person credited with coming up with a formula for calculating horsepower using trap speeds, axle ratios, and vehicle weight. I don’t know if those figures come from his calculations or if he used those numbers to help come up with the formula, but it seems that he was well regarded, at least according to Hagerty, so the numbers should be close.
Cherry_man1
> 472CID
06/26/2015 at 14:47 |
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What about the 1970-71 Torino Cobra with the 428CJ?
Thought that would make at least 400+hp or so
deekster_caddy
> 472CID
06/26/2015 at 14:49 |
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Interesting list. Americans were focused on drag racing, big torque took home big wins. Europeans were focused on high speed driving, autobahn style. It was two different approaches to two different driving styles. Americans were drag racing or covering long straight open highways so big cars ruled. Europeans had higher gas prices to face, and smaller, twistier roads overall so smaller powerful cars were the way to go.
Given the engine technologies of the era, you could pretty much focus on low end torque or high end HP. I’d be interested to see the peak torque output and it’s RPM added to that list. (and you and I know the cadillac 500” and Buick 455” topped that list!)
crowmolly
> KnowsAboutCars
06/26/2015 at 15:15 |
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No.
427/435 was a Corvette only engine from ‘67-’69. It was a cast iron block with cast iron heads (aluminum with the L89 option but still different than the ZL1) along with a 3x2 carb setup. 11:1 compression.
ZL1 was 1969 only. Aluminum block, aluminum heads, single Holley 850. 12.5:1 compression.
Cam profiles were different as well although.
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472CID
> deekster_caddy
06/26/2015 at 15:15 |
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The torque list is pretty interesting, the Caddy tops it with 550lbt-ft, and all the big engines are predictably high with the 454 all the 455s and the Ford 460 getting 500lb-ft or more. Hemis and 440s were at 490.
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472CID
> Cherry_man1
06/26/2015 at 15:17 |
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The highest rating for the 428 that I found was 360hp, that’s possibly underrated.
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KnowsAboutCars
> crowmolly
06/26/2015 at 15:20 |
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Yeah it wasn’t the same engine but rather a thoroughly modified version of it. (Should’ve mentioned that in my first comment.)
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472CID
> Cé hé sin
06/26/2015 at 15:22 |
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No lie, one of the best looking car pictures I’ve seen.
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crowmolly
> KnowsAboutCars
06/26/2015 at 15:27 |
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Most of the major (and even minor) components are not the same. Not modified- completely different.
Are you thinking of the L88, not the L71/435?
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KnowsAboutCars
> crowmolly
06/26/2015 at 15:30 |
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My bad. I didn’t even think about the L71.
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472CID
> lone_liberal
06/26/2015 at 15:33 |
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cool, source?
I always thought it funny how engines were “underrated,” and yet overrated by modern measurement standard. I’m willing to be all but the most powerful engines struggle to make 300 net hp.
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crowmolly
> 472CID
06/26/2015 at 15:35 |
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The big blocks would if they are in a good tune.
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472CID
> LongbowMkII
06/26/2015 at 15:36 |
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The muscle car era: when pretty much every model had at least 300hp, and most had big blocks with close to 400hp
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crowmolly
> KnowsAboutCars
06/26/2015 at 15:43 |
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No worries. The ‘69 Corvette had 7 different engine options, 8 if you count L89 heads on the 427/435.
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lone_liberal
> 472CID
06/26/2015 at 15:50 |
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Like I mentioned to somebody else the list was taken from an auto journalist of the time named Roger Huntington. I looked him up and it seems he was a pretty well respected guy and is credited by at least one source I saw for coming up with the formula that calculates horsepower using trap speed, gear ratios and weight. I don’t know if he used the formula to come up with that chart or if he used those figures to come up with the formula. Here is the link to where a book he wrote is quoted but I can’t find what the name of the book is. http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthre…
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deekster_caddy
> 472CID
06/26/2015 at 17:08 |
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I’m curious how that stacks up vs the european cars. Peak torque I would expect to be lower, but at a higher RPM ... but I’ve never seen euro torque numbers, only us silly americans worried about such things!
I’m pretty sure the caddy topped out at 525 and the Buick 455 at 510 was #2. I don’t think any of the 454s or Ford 460 went that high. With that much torque it’s splitting hairs, but hey numbers win races! I mean, sell cars!
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Cherry_man1
> 472CID
06/26/2015 at 17:24 |
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I would think it would be closer to 400 like the boss 429 only because the dang thing was so hopped up
Shift24
> lone_liberal
06/26/2015 at 21:44 |
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I knew the 426 Elephants were well under rated and the 440 six packs had the same torque as the 426? Wow. I wonder the true HP of the 454 though. I have heard 500s and 490s but i havent been able to find a true source.
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lone_liberal
> Shift24
06/26/2015 at 21:52 |
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Yeah, I wish they had the LS6 on the list too. With the 396 at 400hp I would say high 400s should be realistic if not conservative. The thing that caught my eye is just how much Ford underrated the 428CJ.
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Shift24
> lone_liberal
06/27/2015 at 13:26 |
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Wow i didnt even see that. 75 hp way under rated